On “Modesty”
Last week, Sophie (of BooMama fame) wrote a post at the All Access blog about modesty. I did not read the post at first because of the heebie jeebies I get from that word. But then Kimberly (I can’t remember - do you have a blog I should link to?) emailed me and asked for the link to my old modesty post, so that got me interested.
Sophie’s post is an inoffensive musing of the good-night-what-are-some-women-thinking variety. It was the comments that got my heebies all jeebed up again. A few were uniquely insightful, but most took the standard line that women are responsible for preventing the thoughts of men.
So, in honor of Sophie’s commenters, I thought I would congratulate the many similar voices who were so successful in inculcating modesty awareness in me when I was a cute and curvy teenager. Here are the thoughts that went through my modesty-believing head every day of my college career:
I must not lie in the grass, no matter how beautiful the day or how tempting it is to enjoy the spring breeze while reading a book. When I lie down, my curves are more obvious, and guys walking by me might notice.
I must not stretch in public, no matter how stiff or tired I am. When I stretch, men notice me.
I must not dress to stay cool on a hot day, even if it is 100 degrees. When I go inside where it is cool, men will notice the shape of my nipples.
I must hunch my shoulders when I wear a t-shirt. Maybe then men won’t stare at my chest.
I must spend hours searching for padded bras to hide my nipples, even though almost no one makes padded bras in my size. I must spend $50 on such a bra if I find it, even if I don’t have $50.
I must never run. I bounce when I run.
I must never jump. Same reason.
I must not rest my arm on the back of the couch. Raising my arms lifts my breasts, and men notice.
I must always sit with my knees together, even in jeans. I must not stretch my legs out in front of me. It makes my body too noticeable.
I must not choose sitting positions based on what is most comfortable, even if I am only with women. A man might walk in at any time, and I am guilty for that brief instant he saw me before I changed position.
I must never complain to the men around me about the burden of these rules. Talking about the unfairness of these rules is the same as saying, “Look at my body.”
I don’t know what to do on windy days. My clothing clings to me when I walk to class. Sometimes it makes me not want to go outside.
If only I could find the right clothing, I would be safe from unwanted attention.
If only my figure were less extravagant, I would be free of this responsibility. I hate my curves.
If only I were sexless, I would be at peace.
Thank you, thank you, modesty preachers, for your contribution to my mental heath and happiness. If it weren’t for your sermons, I never would have questioned whether I should be allowed outdoors on windy days.
Seriously though, I know I can’t blame other people for what went on in my own head; that’s kinda the point. I certainly had better examples and heard other messages. My mother, more than any woman I have ever known, joyfully brushes off the unreasonable expectations of those around her. She loves freely, forgives easily and remains as unaffected by the eagerly judgmental as anyone I have ever known.
I have never seen her bitter.
She and my father talked to me about “freedom in Christ,” which was a lofty and difficult concept for my legalistic teenage self. As Martin Luther could tell you, our human corruption makes us want to live by rules, even when those rules enslave us. Especially when those rules enslave us. The idea that I had something called “freedom in Christ” and that it included, say, GOING OUTSIDE ON WINDY DAYS was a little beyond my teenage grasp.
I could say a lot more on this subject, but I have been sorting through my archives recently and realizing just how much dreck I have asked you people to read over the last two years. A real discussion of how to raise daughters to value themselves and live with dignity is important, but I’m not sure I’m the best person to begin that discussion at the moment. I need some time to calm down.
(And for those of you tempted to repeat any women-are-responsible-for-the-lusts-of-men arguments in my comments, you are free to do so, but be aware that Az the Devoted Father of Daughters reads these comments and will be glowering fiercely. I cannot promise that your computer will not explode if he stares at the screen long enough.)
Sue
This is wonderful Veronica.
I’ve always had a very large chest. (That’s a strange thing to write in a blog comment, but there you go.) When I hit puberty (in my JUNIOR year of high school, joy), it was very confusing to have people’s perceptions of me suddenly change. It was hard to have to constantly be mindful of what people might think if I wore a v-neck shirt, or a t-shirt that fit, or heaven forbid, a swimming suit.
Other teenagers could wear a swimming suit and still be a teenager. I was instantly branded a harlot (in my modest one piece), not because of anything I’d done, but because, look, all of those boys are looking at her chest. It was awful. I’ve dreamt of a reduction for years. It seems it would make life much simpler.
Also, I saw your comment somewhere (Boo Mama?) about having a bloggy mid-life crisis because you feel you flit from topic to topic, and I just wanted to say that this is precisely what I think is so wonderful about you and your blog. I hope you’re not planning to change a thing. You’re one of my blogging heroes, truly, and everytime I see you have a new post, you’re the first thing I click on.
Sue
Or rather, not topic to topic, but maybe more accurately, from shallow to deep. But even your shallow is tinged with deep. You can’t help having depth when you have it. (And visa versa, as I sadly know to be true.)
And now I will shut up.
Adventures In Babywearing
Oh. I found this stinging and so honest. Still taking it in…
Steph
The Razzler
I love this! Well said!
boomama
I stinkin’ love you.
Pam
Oh, Veronica, PLEASE don’t change your approach! I enthusiastically say “ditto” to what Sue said (everything but the part about the very large chest… which was never mine even at the height of pregnancy and breastfeeding). I appreciate your depth.
Sarah Chia
I agree that women are not solely responsible for the thoughts of men. I mean, c’mon! Forbidding stretching in public?
But at what point do you believe that women should take ownership of the fact that their clothes are tempting? Where should women put the welfare of men’s thoughts first and where should they say, “Are you kidding? That’s his problem”?
Alice
I too prefer “dignity” over “modesty.” Recently the topic came up at our church, and an older man stated (grumpily), “Women need to teach their daughters how to dress so it doesn’t cause men to stumble.” Yes. We mothers do need to teach our daughters to dress appropriately. But I so desperately wanted to raise my hand and point out that overwhelmingly, most (not all) of the people addicted to pornography in this country are men. How about teaching our sons dignity and respect just as much as our daughters?
bea
I read your list there with my jaw dropping. None of that has ever been part of my consciousness, but of course I am an A cup and spent most of my life believing that I was inherently disgusting to men, so the idea that they would be looking at me really never crossed my mind.
Having read the comments on Boomama’s post, I can see where that mentality would come from. It’s not just the rationale of taking responsibility for men’s thoughts - I think a lot of it has to do with when and how often the issue is raised. All those rules of thumb! The constant vetting of every outfit (which has to be run by one’s father and/or brothers)?? I can imagine having these conversations while clothes shopping with my daughter, but building that kind of constant vigilance into every day? Yikes.
My office mate has a teenage daughter, and she and all her friends hate the sexed-up clothes that are being marketed to them. They wear sporty clothes that look trendy, provide some coverage, and emphasize the ability of their bodies rather than the availability of them. Modesty isn’t something they’re being force-fed; it’s more of a by-product of the way they perceive themselves. If my children have inherited my athleticism, sportiness won’t be the solution in my family, but I’d rather see my daughter wearing a tank top and shorts than obsessing over legalistic rules or viewing her body as a kind of sexual time-bomb just waiting to go off.
Tracey @ In Not Of
I love how you shared what was in your head. I’ve always felt self conscious for the same reason (although I never considered the weather
).
Now, I do consider myself modest, but I claim no responsibly for men’s thoughts. I enjoy dressing to make myself feel good. Once you really get to know a man you realize that there really isn’t anything you can do to “not cause him to stumble”. Their brains go where they go… they just have to learn to control it!
suburbancorrespondent
Yikes. I understand that what you were taught was extreme, but some of us are still stuck with needing to give our teenage daughters basic guidelines on how to dress. What would you suggest (seriously)? Do you think you would tell your girls that anything goes, because men are responsible for themselves? I can’t help feeling that the way we dress does send a message to people on how we value our bodies and our privacy…isn’t there some reasonable middle ground here?
Interested to hear your answer…
fluorophore
For so many reasons, I’m really glad that I lived in Africa in my 20’s. It really did a lot to bring home the very cultural concept of modesty - and also overwrite a lot of my programming on how my body ought to look and function.
When we step outside our own norms, it becomes just so obvious how what we perceive as “sexy” “modest” or “immodest” are really taught values. It is so powerful to spend time with women (and men) who see their (women’s) bare breasts as essentially as titillating as elbows or chins. You begin to learn these responses yourself - and find with amazement that you start reacting to someone’s left hand with repulsion (even if all my life prior I’d never once considered that hand to be the equivalent of dirty toilet paper).
So when folks start on about how women should cover themselves better - oh look cleavage is visible! - It just feels so contrived. In other places my bare head - ack - my hair is showing! would be scandalous.
I think it’s useful to educate our children on what our culture perceives as appropriate, as well as the things that other cultures perceive as appropriate - but to not internalize them. How we cover ourselves is always subject to fashion - it simply is fashion, the convention of the moment. And youth (and also age and purple hats and NOT needing to feel sexy) is forever here to reject, challenge, engage, expand those boundaries. Thank God for it, or we’d still be in freakin hoop skirts and bonnets.
So I say hooray to the scantily clad woman who does so because she finds joy in it. All power to you, honey!
Terri
Ah, yes, you’ve dredged (no pun intended) up memories of similar lectures I heard at the Christian school I attended. One of the main arguments for modesty I heard was that men are stimulated by sight and that’s why women have to be especially careful of what they wear, blah, blah, blah. I understand this to a point especially when I see women out and about who are obviously very proud of their assets, and they are obviously showing them off to the world. But then there is always that very subjective question of where to draw the line. At one point in history it was immodest for women to show their ankles. In some African cultures, a woman’s naked breasts pose no stumbling blocks, but showing off her ankles or legs is considered highly immodest.
Yes, when Adam and Eve sinned they realized they were naked and were ashamed and God made them clothes from animal skins. He clothed BOTH of them not just Eve.
Personally, I think total depravity is more responsible for a man’s thought life about women than the way women dress is.
I read your old post on modesty, and I like what you said about teaching girls dignity and to value themselves rather than so-called modesty.
I certainly don’t won’t my daughters wearing trashy-looking clothing. AND, I get frustrated with the style of clothing marketed to young girls. BUT, being modestly dressed doesn’t mean a girl has to wear shapeless, drab clothes.
My husband and I have had many discussions about this very topic. We feel that being immodest (for lack of a better term) has more to do with drawing inappropriate attention to oneself. Walking outside on a windy day isn’t something a woman should be made to feel guilty doing especially if she can’t help the way God made her. A friend of mine is a good example of this. She has curves galore and there is nothing she could wear that would hide all of them.
I had fully intended to write a post about this subject before I closed my blog. I guess that’s why this comment is so long (sorry). Your post really hit the nail on the head.
Minnesotamom
Oh hooRAY!!!
I completely agree. I, too, went through a period where I was made to feel that way about modesty.
If it’s 95 degrees and I want to wear a respectable tank top and some guy is going to lust by seeing my upper arms, then for crying out loud, lock HIM up! I cannot be responsible beyond taking reasonable measures in my own attire.
Jane @ What About Mom
yes, yes, yes!
I’m not overly-endowed (after 3+ years nursing total, I’m a saggy, droopy B-C), but I hate wearing a bra. Mom used to run her finger up my back when I was in high school to make sure I had it on. I still hate it. I’ve never gotten used to it. I’ve never found that one bra that makes it comfortable (bearable), and I hate bra shopping.
Whenever weather permits I wear a thin fleece vest over my tshirts so I can go bra-less without feeling BRAZEN. And I hate that I feel that way.
I also strongly believe in “modesty.” Can’t stand Ariel and Jasmine, etc, and spend half my life getting my girls to pull their skirts down over their panties. (I need to get back in the habit of having them wear bloomers).
Because girls should be able to run, stretch, cartwheel, jump, bend over, without thinking about anything except, “Wow, didn’t God bless me with an incredible, amazing, beautiful body.”
The thing about being responsible for men’s thoughts makes me see red. This is similar, I think, to a passage in scripture that talks about how bad it is when men take away the virtue of women (by raping them). Virtue should not be something one person can take away from another. Virginity, maybe. (Though I’d even argue that there should be a difference there between spiritual virginity and physical).
But if “virtue” is something that can be taken or destroyed by someone else, rather than something that we earn and nurture and develop within ourselves, then it’s not worth having.
Great post.
Erica
The image of your husband ferociously glaring down certain commenters?
Awesome!
Mad
Then there’s the correlative: that women must be responsible for preventing the thoughts of other women.
“Don’t wear that or all the girls will talk.”
“You don’t want your friend to think you’re out to steal her boyfriend.”
Yes, sadly, we women are directly responsible for some much of the world’s envy and lust.
Tonggu Momma
Veronica — This post touched me deeply. In college, I gained a lot of weight and hid behind over-sized clothes.
Even now I, too, struggle with the modesty versus dignity concept. Sometimes I revert back to my old thought patterns, which weren’t very healthy.
I was quite definitely supposed to read this today. Thanks for posting it.
Miscellaneous From Missy
That list of rules perfectly described me in my teen and early college years. It took my poor husband years to change my thought patterns. God made my body for His glory, and imprisoning myself was not glorifying Him.
I’m printing your post to remind myself of how I do NOT want to raise my daughters.
Thank you.
fern
I cannot believe that some people still think women are responsible for a man’s thoughts or actions. That is like telling a rape victim that she asked for it, because she was wearing a mini skirt. It makes me want to scream.
What I try to teach my teenage daughter is that she should dress in way that shows who she is and what she stands for, that the way she dresses in some ways shows her personality. She has a great balance, and usually dresses for comfort and the weather. She does not like her belly showing, but has no problem wearing spaghetti straps. She only likes one piece bathing suits, likes tight shirts (she is somewhat chesty) and longer skirts–but also short and long shorts.
She is absolutely beautiful-inside and out.
She presents herself with dignity and self-confidence. And if some boy finds that distracting–it is his problem, not hers.
gretchen from lifenut
Great, thoughtful post.
I had the opposite problem as a young woman. I was built like a pre-pubescent until sophomore year of college. We are talking AAA bra size, no hips, etc. Even now, I am a small B.
I tried to go out of my way to show that YES, I am female. It led to some very iffy fashion choices. Micro-miniskirts, bra-stuffing, etc.
I suspect my daughters will be built the same way. I guess my main concern is trying to teach them to be happy with their bodies and not worry what boys/other girls are thinking.
As one of the commentors above noted, women judge other women harshly. Either you are immodest or a pucker-mouthed prude. Simple dignity in dressing is rare but something I strive for in my clothing and in the clothing choices of ALL my kids, boys or girls.
Kimberly
Hullo - Well I am the opposite of some of you, I love Toddled Dredge and therefore save it until the END of Google Reader, kindof like dessert.
Veronica, I do have a blog, but since I updated it last approximately 11 months ago, I don’t advertise it.
I don’t know why the AllAccess post by Sophie hit such a hot button with me, but it certainly did. And wow, did I rant and rave to my friends (hi Sherri!) and husband about it.
I think there are two situations where women (girls too) need to stop and think about why they are dressing a certain way: 1) if they look in the mirror and say, “Da*n, I look hot!” and 2) if they KNOW that what they are wearing is, or verges on, inappropriate and they just think, “I don’t care, it is someone else’s problem.”
Also, I do think that some girls (who then grow into women) really have no idea about what they are doing. I knew a girl in college who was from a fairly traditional Asian family. She would wear these cute, but really short and tight and lowcut, outfits to the fraternity parties, and then she would honestly complain that some of the men were making lewd comments and guestures to her. At first I thought, “really? how fake. How could ANYONE be that ignorent in this day and age.” Somehow, her traditional, quiet parents had never told her that wearing a lace miniskirt without panties (they looked funny under the lace) was REALLY a bad idea.
So, she got an education from her peers.
On the flip side, when discussing this with Husband, much to his amusement at my vehemence, his comment was that “training sons to not look at Victoria’s Secret” (as one of the commenters to Boo Mama’s post said she was doing) merely was going to ensure that they DID look, the first time they were unsupervised.
I wonder if my son (who is not even two years old yet) will be less fixated on breasts since he only associates them with nursing (he calls them ‘nursies’ if he happens to see me unclothed). If we women treated our bodies as created by God for a purpose, which is NOT primarily to attract men, then I wonder if that would rub off on our children, both male and female. And again, that has more to do with respect than modesty, per se.
Phooey, another long post. Maybe I SHOULD post to my blog more often.
Karen
just a thought - I have no daughters to raise, but was one once and did hear these messages - what if instead we did dress with dignity and were taught to do so - but rather for our own sakes than to spare men and immoral thoughts -what if the conversation were changed, but we achieved the desired outcome. Ultimately, girls must become women, responsible unto themselves and God - how do we teach that without all of it being in reference to men, well, it turn out to be difficult, but a more valuable conversation to have.
Happy Geek
If you ever stop writing I will cry for a month.
These two posts were brilliant.
Brilliant.
I want to raise my boys to see women as more than eye candy and to look past whatever she has on (I like to dream big) to who she is.
I don’t want to raise wimps who are at the mercy of a girl’s choice of clothes but rather strong men who can choose where to look and how to think.
Beth
While I do get tired of the new clothing that seems to be TRYING to show more skin all the time, I agree with you 100%. Why aren’t we teaching boys to be respectful? Why do we only teach girls that they have to be modest? I mean, sure chocolate cake appeals to my eye pretty much every single time I see it but I don’t stuff my face with it because I saw it do I? I mean, men CAN in fact, control themselves, can they not?? lol
Sorry. I work at a domestic violence/sexual assault shelter and I get really tired of the general population saying that women are responsible for the men who take advantage of them.
Beth
Really, I’m not a crazy person . . . lol My previous comment seemed a little crazy . . .hahaha (nervous laughter)
Sherri E.
What’s really funny is that after I read this post (which I loved, it should go without saying at this point), I checked my Google reader and found this:
http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/015227.html
JulieC
Dignity! Yes, that’s it. You said it right.
By the way, I don’t think you ever write dreck.
Karen
I liked what Alice (comment
said - how about if, while we’re teaching our daughters to dress modesstly, we teach our sons to keep their minds on pure things? The responsibility goes two ways. And I liked Happy Geek’s comment too (#24). It’s never as cut-and-dried and some people like to make it.
sis
As a b cup, I never experienced the boob issue firsthand, but I did have a women at church tell her son that I showed too much shoulder blade. How weird is that?
Now that I’ m older, I’ve actually been excited that my boobs are saggy enough to make some cleavage. As an overweight, 34 year old mother of five, no one ever criticizes my cleavage-even at church. If envy isn’t other women’s motivation, how come I can pad it and push it up to my neck and not even receive a dirty look? Yet a friend with gorgeous 22 year old DDs, can’t even wear a t-shirt without a scornful comment?
Mom101
This is so beautiful and yet so heartbreaking. With two daughters I have to stop myself from thinking about what inner turmoil is coming their way and instead hope that we’ll have come a longer way, baby, by the time they’re teens.
Jane
Great post! As with everything good, it can go too far. I grew up very sensitive to the perhaps too strong modesty messages of my father. I was the teen in turtle necks all the time. I had such a cute figure back then too. I wish I had been more comfortable -not over the top, but not scared either.
Jennifer
I have a teenage daughter and this was great for me to read tonight. I’m learning that what I find “common sense” is still a mystery to her sometimes…
she so wants to do what is right, which is sweet. I want her to do what is right, yes, but more than that I want her to BE right in her spirit, which is an altogether different thing. And yes, it involves some freedom.
I think we have a tendency to get distracted. It is lots easier to worry and fret over clothing issues than to deal with our souls before God. But pride and idolatry are as equally sinful as immodesty.
Just when I think I”ve communicated things fairly well to my 13 year old, I find another gap in her thinking - and that just happened today. So, your post was timely, thank you. You know what I loved best? That little bit of information that your mother has never been known to be bitter. Boy, that speaks volumes, doesn’t it?
Well, I’m thankful that my daughter still comes to me, and I’m happy to discuss this stuff with her, but it keeps me on my knees, I’ll be the first to confess! Being a 13 year old isn’t easy these days -
but neither is being a mommy.
Jeana
I think there is a middle ground, where we know we are not personally responsible for a man’s every thought but at the same time we dress with consideration for the men around us. I don’t think we need to worry and fret about every minute possibility, but we can show consideration by ruling out the outfits that are obviously sexual.
One comment above said what I was thinking: modesty is about not attempting to draw all attention to ourselves. We can dress in an attractive way that doesn’t scream, “HELLO, I HAVE ARRIVED, ALL EYES ON ME.” The people you talked about–they had the same attitude, they were just trying to get attention with their piety instead of their attire.
I hate that you were treated that way. Really. But it seems to me that modesty is getting a bad rap here, when the true villains were pride, arrogance, legalism and self-righteousness. Unfortunately, those attitudes are not limited to the issue of modesty.
Heidi
I’m amazed at some of the comments on your blog, much less Sophie’s!
It seems that suppression of sexuality is the ideal? I’m not talking about licentiousness or fornication, but isn’t part of being a woman/wife/mother sexual? Am I the only one who thinks maybe it’s not the worst thing in the world to actually be, well, a little sexy?
No, I’m not. Check out this blog http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/modest-about-modesty/ (sorry, I’m not smart enough to actually do a link.
I hope Az the Husband won’t glare at me. I’m genuinely terrified.
rebecca
Thank you for this post. What is modesty? I so agree with fluorophore that modesty is relative to where you live.
Reading some of the commenters on Boomama’s post, I thought, “Break out the burkas!” But hey, that doesn’t work because then men are turned on by your hair, so then bring on the veils. At what point do you stop?
I think Jeana may be on the right track. It’s not so much a matter of how little or how much you wear, but more of an issue of ego and pride.
When we dress in ways designed to bring glory to ourselves and our bodies, then perhaps we are losing an opportunity to glorify God.
zoom
All of this made my head hurt….
NOBLE PIG
This was an awesome post.
brother
Veronica,
I don’t see any men responding to your blog, but I hope you find this contribution worthwhile.
1. The obvious….men find women attractive. It does not make a difference whether you are skinny or full figured. It does not make a difference whether you wear modest or immodest clothing. Some men like skinny women, some men like full figured women, some men like women wearing modest clothes, some men like women wearing immodest clothes, some are attracted to legs, breasts, face, butt and believe it or not some are even attracted to personality. It does not make a difference what you wear, the shape of your body, or personality…there is a man out there who will find you attractive. Men frequently think about sexual relations because they are a pleasent to think about. Attraction plus sexual thoughts can lead to lust.
2. In Afghanistan, driving down the road I will hear soldiers talking about burka clad women T&A (toes and ankles). Sorry Rebecca, burkas don’t solve the issue.
3. The church does struggle with human sexuality. We don’t hear sermons from the Song of Solomon. We don’t separate healthy sexual desires from unhealthy one. We simply fall back on the “just don’t do it” mantra.
4. Christian parents don’t want to acknowledge the struggle and temptation their children face about sexual activity.
5. Pornography is a huge problem because it distorts healthy sexual images for unhealthy ones. I would submit that romance novels can do the same thing for women and some of them are every bit as pornographic in words as anything a man would look at.
6. Sexual relations were created to draw you closer to your spouse. It is about 2 becoming 1. The connection you share with that person helps cement the intimacy a husband and wife need to survive in a fallen world.
7. I like it when my wife dresses sexy when we go out.
8. One last question…do you think Az wearing a speedo to the pool would cause “women to stumble”?
brother
edj
Modesty is such an intricate topic. Like Fluorophore, I view it differently after having lived overseas. We lived in a Muslim country, where modesty is spelled out for you–a woman may show her face and hands, period. (Proper Muslims wear black socks) Once, a woman, eyeing my husband, actually let the wind catch her veil and blow it off her head, showing him her hair. Shameless hussy!
Modesty is largely defined by culture. (Hence swimsuits in France, for little girls, are bikini bottom only–you can’t even find a one-piece as we’d define it here) However, modesty is ultimately about attitude, about what a woman is trying to do with the way she’s dressed, what’s she showing, etc. So that woman, showing off her hair to try and trap my (rich American) husband, was really more immodest than a topless French woman, who’s really dressed appropriately for her culture at the beach.
Great, thought-provoking post. I must say that I was made rather angry at your thoughts, not that you thought them, but that your subculture ever made you feel that way. Honestly, that’s how my Muslim friends are raised. Modestly in Islam is entirely dependent on the woman; the man has little or no responsibility in it.
Ok, rambling, will stop now!
edj
PS. I wrote all that and then clicked on “submit.” Felt very strange
Beck
This is a tricky subject.
We have strict clothing rules - well, not that strict, but strict enough that we freak some of my relatives out. Our kids don’t wear shorter shorts, for example, and our girls aren’t allowed to wear dresses with spaghetti straps. And it’s not that I think that kids who ARE allowed to run around in midriff-baring spaghetti strap tanks and little shorts are bad, immodest kids, but that the standards of beauty in our culture ARE so prepubescent that it just seems UNSAFE. And I also want to raise girls with dignity and self-respect as a way of protecting them from hoochie culture.
Having said that: I remember reading on a blog where a young mom was beating herself up for ever having worn jeans and thus Tempting Men Sexually. What?! That poor woman - I really don’t think that my denim-clad self is going to tempt any man to sin, honestly. So I think that a lot of the modesty movement is sort of obsessed with sexuality in a weirdly unhealthy way - other people’s thoughts are REALLY not my responsibility, so long as I’m dressed in an appropriate, reasonable way for my culture - and I have a right to occupy space without worrying unduly about my tremendous sexual allure driving the menfolk wacky.
I think that there’s a careful line we walk between making our girls feel guilty about their sexual appeal and not protecting them enough.
Chantelle
This post and all the comments has been really thought provoking for me, partially because I was not raised religiously nor am I currently religious, so some of the moral issues of modesty were never part of my upbringing, but the problems of how to dress and how to be proud of your body as a woman without treating it as a sex object are all too familiar.
I remember in 6th grade, when short shorts were starting to become trendy, the teachers separated the boys and the girls suddenly one day and the female principal came in to talk to us. The gist of the talk was that our bodies were changing and so were the boys minds and these short shorts were distracting and therefore they wouldn’t be allowed in school. I later found out the boys had just been given time to do their homework during our little talk.
I think that underscores what a couple people have said on here about the one sidedness of most discussions of modesty. Where was the boys lecture about their blossoming minds and how to keep them focused?
For me personally, dignity or as some people have said respect is a much better frame because respect is a two-way street, whereas modest for me somehow feels like the opposite of lascivious. I guess I would want to raise my daughters (if I have any, watch me wax hypothetical) to understand that how they dress has meaning for other people without themselves drawing any value judgments about the character of women who dress in some way that others perceive as immodest. If that makes sense.
Melanie
One word stood out for me in this post.
Dignity.
Whether I teach her to show it all or to cover her hair with a scarf, if I do not teach my daughter about dignity and self-respect, my efforts are in vain.
THANK YOU!
Mr. Blue
This is sexist in it’s very nature.
I can’t count the times I have seen women take a peek at my ‘package’ while sitting down in dress pants.
YOU GUYS DO IT TOO!!!!!
This isn’t about taking attention away from your body, because to be honest… no joke, NOT EVERY MAN IS CHECKING OUT YOUR BOOBS/BUTT/CURVES/WHATEVER!!!
Posts like this do nothing more than emphasize the insecurity of the one claiming the modesty.
Veronica Mitchell
Mr. Blue,
Duh.