Dignity, Not Modesty
There’s a conversation going on right now with Shannon at Rocks in My Dryer and Jules at Everyday Mommy about clothing for little girls. The basic complaint is a valid and important one: clothing designers and manufacturers are producing clothing that sexualizes little girls, like shorts or pants with writing across the butt, or tiny little halter tops or bikinis. It is creepy and offensive, and I am baffled why so many adults tolerate this and even buy it.
But the word “modesty” dredges up all sorts of negative experiences for me, and I never use it. I will not use that word with my girls. “Modesty” in my mind is associated with all the harangues I heard at my evangelical college about how women are responsible for the lusts of men. The word makes me queasy. Then it makes me angry.
I was a teenage freshman, a little younger than my classmates. Our school, which did not allow dancing, held an annual Christmas banquet. Most of the women students wore formal dresses for this, usually prom dresses left over from high school. I had not gone to prom, but I bought an inexpensive strapless dress with a jacket, similar to the things other women wore, and - rare for me at the time - I felt pretty.
My friends and I had arranged to go as a group, and meet a group of male friends at the banquet. We all sat down together. The men stayed five minutes, and then left without explanation. All the guys left except one, a sweet young man who ate the meal with us, wondering out loud where all the other guys had gone.
They had left because they thought the neckline on my dress was too low. They would not eat a meal with me. They did not tell me this, but went back to the dorm and gossipped about it, so I could hear about it through the grapevine.
I am not going to waste time telling you how that made an insecure teenage girl feel.
The near constant message we heard at college was that we mustn’t “cause our brother to stumble,” by which they meant that women were responsible for finding clothing that would prevent men from thinking about sex. I’m not sure where these magical articles of clothing were sold, but, judging by chapel sermons and conversations with the male students, they seemed certain they existed. Only once did I hear a word of compassion or respect for women on this subject, from the school’s president, a decent guy who managed to be acceptable to the conservatives of the school without participating in some of their insanities.
When I think back on this, I am embarrassed. Not because of anything I ever wore - because like most things in my life at the time, I dressed shyly - but because of how thoroughly I let it infect me. I believed it. I felt guilty for my curves, and thought I needed to find a way to hide them.
I remember a visit home, standing in the kitchen with my mother, washing dishes. She expressed concern over my weight and said, “I think what worries me the most, Veronica, is that I think you are gaining weight to make yourself unattractive to men. ” I made some quip to deflect her attention, but she was right. There was a way to remove that terrible burden of a body that attracts men, and I had found it: I got fat.
My mother is a strong woman, and she and my father have always made it clear that they consider this “causing your brother to stumble” nonsense about clothing to be mildly heretical horse manure. My brother, likewise, when I discussed this with him, expressed bafflement. He was a student at a military academy where the men were not exactly respectful of women, and the notion that any woman could feel she had some responsibility for it was like hearing someone claim that women could keep the sun from setting if they just tried hard enough.
The problem with talk of “modesty” is the underlying implication, even if sometimes unintentional, that feminine beauty is shameful. I know it made me ashamed, and I certainly didn’t get that from my parents. But this facet of “modesty” talk, if even admitted to exist, is quickly dismissed as accidental and of little significance compared to the all-important task of protecting men and boys from their helplessness before their own thoughts.
Eventually, I began to believe my parents rather than my peers. Eventually I learned that beauty and dignity go together, and I learned to value myself.
About ten years ago, when I first moved to this city, I went for a fast walk for exercise. I passed a fellow grad student on the way. When I got back to the dorm, the student, a woman who has since grown more gracious, had prepared a lecture for me about the indecency of the way my figure bounced while exercising. She had smug lines like, “I was afraid you were going to give yourself a black eye.”
And ten years of my anger exploded all over her.
I don’t explode anymore. I’m more likely to roll my eyes and quietly withdraw from the conversation. Sometimes, if I can muster up the Christian grace, I ask a few penetrating questions and try to change minds. But mostly I recognize that I am unwelcome in those conversations, and no one wants to hear what I have to say.
Which is this: it isn’t “modesty” we need to teach our girls, but dignity. We do not need to imply that their bodies are shameful and must be hidden, or that they are responsible for burdens that no one could ever carry. I will teach my girls, to the best of my ability, that they are valuable and beautiful, that their choice in clothing should reflect a confidence in their own value and beauty and not the desperate shout, “Look! Girl parts!” I want to teach them to rebel against the exploitive, rich manufacturers who decide what trashy outfit they want to see little girls wear and then make it. I want my daughters to dress for beauty without accepting our society’s insistence that a woman’s value lies in her sexual desirability. I want my daughters to know, deep down, unassailable, that they deserve respect from men, and I want them to refuse to tolerate anything less.
And I tell you with a pain born of experience that none of those ideas are conveyed in the word “modesty.”
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Chilihead2
I agree with you. Something has been nagging me at the back of mind as I try to write my posts about this and I think you’ve finally hit upon it: the negative connotations associated with “modesty”. I am not modest nor do I raise my children to be modest. By that I mean we are not embarrassed by our bodies. However, we do not flaunt ourselves in public.
This is a subject that has a lot of layers for me and it’s bringing about great discussion. I particularly appreciate your take on it. I also appreciate that, because it’s not exactly the take everyone else is spouting, it’s not the easy post to make. Good for you. I hope you’ll continue the discussion at everyone’s blogs.
Beck
FINALLY! Yes, that made me so uncomfortable, too - while I don’t want my daughter running around like some underaged tartlet, I also don’t want her to think that her body is a danger to her, that she’s responsible for other people’s wickedness simply because of the shirt that she’s wearing.
Also. Teenage girls are becoming sexually mature women generally as their mothers are becoming middle-aged women, and I often feel the disquieting sensation that so much of the modesty movement is a certain resentfulness towards the daughters’ ripening sexuality. I’m not saying that girls should dress like strippers, but that I think the issue is complicated.
Thank you for writing that. I’ve been thinking about this all day, and you really helped me put my thoughts in order.
Jenny in Queensland
Oh Veronica,
You have managed to write my exact feelings.
I too have been following the blogs of Shannon and Jules with interest.
Thankyou for sharing.
Everyday Mommy
Veronica:
Thank you, thank you for sharing your thoughts so beautifully. I agree with much of what you’ve said.
I believe that while we’ve chosen a word which (sadly) has negative connotations for you, the spirit of our message is the same as yours.
Personal responsibility must be an equal playing field for both male and female. We teach our son that he, and he alone, is fully responsible for his actions. No one can make him do anything he does not want to do.
I hope you’ll forgive our use of the word “modest”. God bless you and your beautiful girls.
Warmly,
Jules
EverydayMommy.net
BooMama
Well, THAT blew me away.
Dignity. Yes. It’s a matter of the heart, not a matter of the wardrobe.
And I’ve thrown that “modesty” word around all devil-may-care-ish, never before seeing the distinction.
I learned something today.
Thank you, teacher.
Rabbit
Veronica, the pain of some past hurts is evident in your post. I’m so sorry that such unwarranted pressure was placed upon you, as if by your attire you could prevent others from thinking or acting out of lust, or incite them to the same. The word “modest”, according to Webster’s, simply means “propriety in dress, speech, or conduct”. There is no implication (in the dictionary) of modesty meaning that we either inspire or prevent others’ thoughts or actions. That is all we mean by our use of the word “modesty”: “propriety in dress”. For an 8 year old girl, I think we agree, that doesn’t mean midriff-baring halter tops with trashy slogans. As Jules stated, my son and my daughter are learning that they alone are responsible for their thoughts and actions. I’m grateful to you for raising the issue to another level, and bringing this conversation further along. Sincerely, Rabbit
Pieces
Veronica, your post is so eloquent and powerful. My heart aches and my stomach revolts at the experiences you’ve had revolving around the word modesty. Once again, it points to a concept being abused in the name of religion.
The concept I will try to teach Girlkiddo is respect. Does the clothing she wears show that she respects herself? If she ends up with loads of cleavage, I won’t have problems with her showing some of it. Women are beautiful and God gave us beautiful bodies. The issue will be–why is she showing it?
While I completely agree that no woman is responsible for what men think, I do struggle with the way many women and teens dress. How can I ask my son not view his classmates as mere sex objects if there are tummies and breasts hanging out everywhere?
As with most things, it seems that moderation and respect for everyone–both men and women–is in order.
Jeff
This whole discussion puts a knot in my stomach. On the one hand I want my girls to dress/act with a certain amount of modesty. My five year old already has had a special-friend who she says she “loves” and it pisses me off. On the other I want them to enjoy life without me adding extra baggage like guilt over sex and the like.
I am not sure how I will handle this when my daughters get older (I have a few years to dread this) but I think I am going to have to put aside some paternal prejudices when it comes to the way they dress and act. I know my oldest will want to push the envelope, its just in her personaility
kim
Bravo Veronica! This post was perfect.
Blog Antagonist
Great post. I am, in some ways, grateful not to have girl children. I don’t know if I could handle the stress of instilling self-worth based on who she is and not how she looks, without also creating a harmufl sense of shame about her body. I would want to teach them to love themselves as women and embrace everything about being feminine, but also that they do not have to fall into the identity traps and steroetypes that society has created for them. Phew. Boys are easier.
Not modesty, but dignity. Wonderful.
atypical
Thank you for this post. Everyone before me captured so many of the reasons this is an awesome post, so I won’t go into much detail. As a fellow despiser of that particular use of the word modesty, I thank you again.
Goslyn
That’s a lovely post, Veronica. While I do not have the negative connotations with the word Modesty that you do, I agree that the point is to teach our daughters to dress with dignity. Modest dignity, perhaps, but dignity.
Thank you for putting your 2 cents into the discussion. It was thought-provoking and well written.
Jennifer
Wow. I have been catching up with you today and it’s one great post after another. You never disappoint.
Peach
Found you through Chilihead, and I am so glad to have read your powerful post. Thank you for stepping up this whole discussion to the next level. You’ve helped to give me the right words in addition to modesty to share with my girls. No, they are not to be ashamed of their bodies, but to move through this life with the utmost of dignity at all times.
sweatpantsmom
What a great post. Having two girls, this really spoke to me. The word ‘modesty’ has always sounded odd to me in regards to presenting oneself, and now I know why.
Food Mum
Great post - I can’t believe your college was so un liberated, so recently. I can’t remember that attitude when I was at college or school even, though baggy clothes were fashionble then, you couldn’t have detected a curve among all the excess folds of Dad sized shirts and baggy trousers. I am grateful not to have had that burden, I was already shy enough of my body without outside influences.
molly
I like the way you distinguish between modesty and dignity. Very good.
I’ve never been one to see that “clothing designers and manufacturers are producing clothing that sexualizes little girls.” At least not the really small ones that you seem to be talking about. I understand what you’re saying, but unless you’re a person with a particular perversion, you won’t see a small child in a sexual manner, and their ‘fashionable’ dress is nothing more than cute, not sexy or suggestive. This being said, I’d put my toddler in a bikini, but now that she’s a teenager, she wouldn’t be caught in anything less than a one piece. She has her own dignity.
Her Bad Mother
This was such a wonderfully nuanced post. You are so right that what is at stake here IS the distinction between modesty (bah) and dignity (yes).
Your pledge to your daughters is wonderful, and I’ll be borrowing it.
Mrs. Chicky
I’m new to your blog (found you via Blogher) but I’m very glad I found you because this post was so wonderfully written. I like your distinction between modesty and dignity. I enjoyed the whole post. Thank you.
Emily
I loved everything about this post. Your life experiences concerning this material have been so different from my own growing up in the famously laid-back and liberal coastal California.
Great detail, argumentation, spirit, wow.
(Whenever I read a great post that is serious/profound, I “lose my words” and write lame-ass comments like the above. I’ve heard that when women’s emotional-nueral brain centers are engaged, their speech centers shut down somewhat.)
Thanks for this rich post!
Tracy
I appreciate your thoughts on this. I know how you must have felt at that time.
I think we adult women need to take back the word modesty though. In itself it is a true virtue and is the opposite of immodest. Dignity and modesty are closely related and I think that one leads to the other. Modesty is not a dirty word!
How we present ourselves to others affects how we are treated. I want my daughters to behave and dress modestly so that they are more likely to be treated with dignity. Ultimately they are not responsible for another’s behavior, but they can affect a more or less likely response.
Does modesty mean being ashamed of our inherent beauty and dignity as women? I don’t think so. However, shame vs. modesty can present a delicate balance and I will do my best to help my daughters live in that balance. Thanks again for insight.
Gwen
I loved this post and the way you championed dignity (the modesty/ boys at the table story reminded me of one of Eve Ensler’s Vagina Monologues about “My Short Skirt”). I have two little girls and so this is a topic constantly on my mind. So far, they dress for themselves, and I let them, even when it’s hard to allow my oldest to leave the house in a long sleeved printed dress with a sleeveless shirt over it and completely unmatching tights on her legs. I keep hoping that styles will change by the time they grow up, but I think your approach might be better.
Helene
Also a Christian college veteran, I once watched my peers put down my roommate for a dress she had borrowed. It all revolved around the presence of her lovely DDD boobs. The whole thing stank of envy and was very belittling. Since then, I have often marveled that Christian women who criticize other adults almost never have boobs. Why is that?
Also, if men are such tragically helpless creatures, why are old or fat women NEVER hassled for what they wear. I’ve never been criticized for showing the cleavage surrounding the diminutive breasts on my fat, 32 year old body- even in church.
Anyway, it is a tricky issue. I’ve been alarmed lately to think that my girls could actually be strikingly beautiful when they grow up. I don’t know how I’ll handle that.
Teacher lady
So many important issues in this post - like the clothes sold by the likes of Abercrombie & Fitch and/or The Limited Too that include THONG underwear. (And yes, even though Glamour magazine cites VPL - Visible Panty Lines - as THE most deadly fashion sin, I don’t think putting our 8-year-old girls in thongs is the answer). I have mentioned it in my blog, and I’m sure you don’t have lots of spare time, but if you can borrow Female Chauvanist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture from your local library, I think you will find it fascinating. Our culture IS “pornographitizing” everything - including children’s clothing - and it’s okay to say you don’t appreciate it while still saying you don’t buy into the concept of modesty. Whew. Sorry for the run-on there.
MommieSunshine
I so agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t associate being “modest” as being “ashamed of your body”. I’m sorry that you felt that way. I don’t, by any means, want my daughter to be ashamed of being pretty and I don’t want her to be ashamed of her body. I do, however, want her to know that becoming a beautiful young woman does not mean that she should show off her “curves”. She can be beautiful with “dignity” and not being “sexy”. If that made any sense to y’all. =)
Your post was very well written. Thank you for your honesty and insight.
Mad
Yes. I guess I didn’t need to leave the comment I just left on your later post.
One thing I will add is that in all this talk of sexuality and clothing, the important distinction it that of age. Until my daughter hits puberty, sexuality should not be on her radar. I will fight tooth and nail any industry that tries to tart her up when she should be enjoying childhood. After she hits puberty, I will need to walk the minefield with her and, with hope, by then the message of dignity over modesty will have hit home.
carrien (she laughs at the days)
I wish I could have been privy to your explosion. That would have been something to see.
I too gained weight out of guilt over men finding my body attractive. (34DD)
I have also wondered, even with my husband’s subsequent admiration of my loss of said weight if anyone loves me for who I am, or just the size of my waist compared to my chest. (Not his fault, totally my deal.)
I am happy to report that that is all far behind me and that I like my body, enjoy the way it looks, and enjoy that my husband enjoys it too. It only took 30 years.
I usually wear peasant tops because they are cute and comfortable in the heat, and the only time I consider what effect my clothing may have on other males is when I consider how much will show when I lean over the family dinner table to pass my adolescent BIL the salad.
And, not able to wrap this up yet, that’s because I was always embarrassed when my mother’s cleavage showed. Not because it was sexy, but because it seemed so messy and unkempt. The opposite of dignified.